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WIGGYSARK
WIGGYSARK

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:20pm

Post Subject: ENGINE

Hllo, I have a couple of problems that I would like help with. I have approached 3 different marina mechanics but to no avail. first of all , whilst travelling along if I suddenly pull the throttle lever back to tick over, the engine frequently stalls. the tickover is set at about 8000 to 9000 revs. my second problem is the starter motor. when I turn the key to start the engine I get just a clicking noise . it sometimes takes a lot of attempts before it suddenly starts. I have purchased a new starter motor but that has not fixed the problem. Sometimes it starts after just a couple of attempts but usualy it takes up to 10 to 20 attempts , then it just suddenly starts.. Do ou think you can shed any light on the 2 problems. Regards, Phil

Tony-B
Tony-B

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:28pm

Post Subject: ENGINE

Apart from the tick over speed being quoted as ten times too fast I need to know the make and model of the engine, running temperature when it stalls, and a bit of the history that lead up to this. Tony Brooks

WIGGYSARK
WIGGYSARK

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:35pm

Post Subject: ENGINE

IT has had both faults since I bought the boat in December 2014. sorry, the tickover speed is about 800 to 900.

WIGGYSARK
WIGGYSARK

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:39pm

Post Subject: ENGINE

The boat was built in 2009 and the engine is a Barus Shanks 35. the engie was servicedprior to me collecting it from Whilton marina in December 2014. Imoved the boat up to Alvecote Marina which took me 4 days and from the first day, I experienceed these problems.

Tony-B
Tony-B

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:46pm

Post Subject: ENGINE

Thanks for that. I asked about the temperature in case it is overheating and suffering a partial seizure. This will not be the case it it stalls early in the day while the engine is warm but not yet hot. If it only stall as you go to slow ahead or astern but does not if you move it straight back to neutral then that suggests that the prop may be too big, the stern gland is badly overtightened (but I would have expected the gland to smoke), the shaft is badly bent, or the engine alignment is badly wrong. If it does it even when you go into neutral it is far more likely to be an engine or fuel system fault. The Shanks is an imported Chinese base engine with virtually no on-line documentation or photos. I read one comment that said that the injector pump has its own oil sump that needs checking. I do not know if this is true but if it is running dry or with fuel leaking into it from worn elements then that may be loading the engine. This type of thing was fairly common on UK engines about 60 years ago so I doubt many of today's mechanics would recognise such systems for what they are. I hope you have a manual. At the end of the day you have got a cheap Chinese engine so apart from paying Barrus to sort the stalling out (if they will - the Shanks range no longer appears on their website - make what you will of that) I fear you may have to put up with it or fit a different engine. Before doings anything so radical I would want to go through the fuel system to ensure the filter(s) and tank are not contaminated with water or bug, the fuel lift pump has an adequate supply at idle (I do not know if its an electric or mechanical lift pump), and that there are no air leaks into the system. If you have any reason to suspect it could be a faulty lift pump then try a Facit electric fuel pump from your local motor factors. If you need the lift pump identifying then I need some photos, send to Tony@tb-training.co.uk. If your battery bank is well discharged it is not unknown for a large alternator to give this symptom but it should clear as the batteries charge so the load on the alternator falls. Now the starting difficulty. I will starts another answer because the lack of paragraphs on the forum makes long answers difficult to read.

Tony-B
Tony-B

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:04pm

Post Subject: ENGINE

The starting problem: Look at the end of the smaller cylinder on top of the starter motor and you should see two nut type terminals, one with more than one wire on it, and one single small blade with just one wire on it. This is the terminal that "turns the starter on". Get a length of cable (say household three core mains flex or single cable of at least 28/0.30 size and fit a crocodile clip to one end (use all the cores in the mains cable). Strip and twist the other ends together. Clip the cable to the starter battery positive taking care not to touch the other end to anything that's metal. Now firmly push the bare end against the terminal with just a single wire on it. The starter should spin over each time you do this and the engine may start. If it carries on as before then the problem is within the starter (unlikely as its new), loose or dirty main battery connections, faulty master switch, or something odd on the large negative (earth) wiring for the engine. It it works every time then the problem is with the supply to that single wire terminal. I think that if you look along the main wiring harness running from engine to instrument panel you will find at least one large multi-way plug and socket. Manipulate this and see if the fault clears. If it does make sure all the connections are clean and tight. If not then I would suspect a undersized cables or lose/dirty between the batteries (probably from a nut starter terminal) and ignition switch. Ditto from ignition switch to starter (single wire terminal), or faulty ignition switch. I hope this helps come back if you want more information.

WIGGYSARK
WIGGYSARK

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:47am

Post Subject: ENGINE

Thanks for your advice. On further investigation I cannot visually se any problems with the connections but there is one unusualy thing that I did discover was, on looking at the wiring diagram it shows a wire from the ignition switch to a relay then from the relay to the Stater Motor Solenoid. but, the previous owner has disconnected the original wire from the ignition switch and replaced it with a single wire straight from the ignition switch to the Starter Solenoid. Is there a need for the additional stater relay or could this bypass be what is causing the problem.

Tony-B
Tony-B

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:15pm

Post Subject: ENGINE

I think that we are well on the way to solving the starting problem. In my last email I explained how to check which part of the starter circuit was causing problem and if you had done what I suggested with the extra length of wire I think the engine would have spun over every time. The starter solenoid (not the motor) typically requires 10 to 20 amps to operate it. This imposes a highish load on the start contact in the ignition switch and also requires a heavier than otherwise cable feeding the ignition switch and also from the ignition switch to the small, single cable, connector on the starter motor solenoid. One way to avoid both things is to feed a relay that is close to the starter with the heavier cable from the battery terminal on the solenoid and from the other side of the relay to the small single wire terminal on the solenoid. Then the relay coil can be fed by a thin wire from the ignition switch because the relay coil only demands a fraction of an amp. Although Barrus seem to have a name for a quality marinisation I am not so sure about the Shanks range as they are/were a budget engine so maybe the ignition switch is a cheaper one. If so I can not recommend that you rewire the ignition switch feed and the switch to solenoid cable in a thicker wire. I think it would be bets to reinstate the relay. Try to find one rated at 40 amps rather than the more usual 10 amps. I think that will solve the starting problem. Incidentaly, I am far from convinced by the WWW advice that the tick over may be too low. They might be correct but engaging the gears at 1000 RPM is likely to produce a fair old bang. If you have a PRM HYDRAULIC gearbox then by all means try raising the idle speed. If its any form of mechanical box be far more cautious. It is possible that your rev counter was not properly set for your alternator so it might be telling lies by over reading. See if you can get hold of a hand held rev counter so you can check the reading is correct. If it is reading high then you will know by how much and be able to re-set the idle to compensate for the error. I hope this helps.

Tony-B
Tony-B

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:36am

Post Subject: ENGINE

While answering another reader's problem I realised there may be another reason for the stalling but it is very unlikely, especially if it stall when cold. When someone has done a lot of sound proofing around the engine it is not unknown for them to block all the air inlets. Sometimes this also happens when rubber sections or foam is used stop deck boards vibrating it prevents the engine obtaining the air it needs. It also causes excessive engine room ambient temperatures. Both can cause the engine to lose power that may lead to such stalling. To rule this out try wedging an engine deck cover up with a pair of matchbox sized blocks of wood, ditto the engine casing if it is a rear engine, trad style boat. If the fault disappears then you will need to add some ventilation.

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